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New part request from CAI vendors

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#1
CAI vendors please start making a reasonably priced good quality carbon fiber air box to throttle body transition to replace that God awful ugly big rubber boots on our Redeyes.
Thanks
 

Hpindy

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#2
CAI vendors please start making a reasonably priced good quality carbon fiber air box to throttle body transition to replace that God awful ugly big rubber boots on our Redeyes.
Thanks
Carbon fiber is not cheap nor is good quality parts . In this instance you pay for what you get . I do agree the big rubber accordion tube is kind of ugly but it is cheap to make and functional for the manufacturers to use.

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Hunter

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#3
Carbon fiber is not cheap nor is good quality parts . In this instance you pay for what you get . I do agree the big rubber accordion tube is kind of ugly but it is cheap to make and functional for the manufacturers to use.

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True, but a 70 thousand plus car could do with a better tube. If not carbon fiber like the LMI, how about similar to the BWoody?
 
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#4
Those rubber boots are better than you think, even though they may not look pretty. Great heat dissipation and it's nice to have something flexible when you're working around in there.
 

Hpindy

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#5
True, but a 70 thousand plus car could do with a better tube. If not carbon fiber like the LMI, how about similar to the BWoody?
I think the rubber "accordian " boot is designed like it is on purpose . I'm sure SRT has a reason behind it .

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motorhead

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#6
I think the rubber "accordian " boot is designed like it is on purpose . I'm sure SRT has a reason behind it .
For flex on an engine that goes through millions of movement cycles if driven as intended in all weather conditions.
 
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#7
I think the rubber "accordian " boot is designed like it is on purpose . I'm sure SRT has a reason behind it .

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Well they always do that to increase the surface area of the piece, as heat dissipation is a function of surface area, those accordian waves increase the surface area of the part significantly...plus like is stated allowing for a little movement is a good thing.
 

Hpindy

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#8
So what you guys are saying is " function over fashion "

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motorhead

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#9
Well they always do that to increase the surface area of the piece, as heat dissipation is a function of surface area, those accordian waves increase the surface area of the part significantly...
Do you have proof of this? Not the surface area, that is obvious; the thermal dissipation of heat.

Also, the potential to increase turbulence and reducing flow is presented by the bellows. This could be measured.
 
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#10
Basic engineering principle of radiating heat at work here, how much heat is radiated away is a function of the surface area giving off the radiation. That;'s why things that get hot have fanned or rippled surfaces all the time. You see it all along the intake tract and the diff housing has those ridges all along it for this reason too.

Along the intake tube, the ridges have nearly no effect on turbulence, and the intake pulse/waves are much more sensitive to path length and engineers build them to pull in air in phase helping the intake work. That's one of the biggest things you can interrupt when modifying your intake is the wave phase.
 

motorhead

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#11
Basic engineering principle of radiating heat at work here, how much heat is radiated away is a function of the surface area giving off the radiation. That;'s why things that get hot have fanned or rippled surfaces all the time. You see it all along the intake tract and the diff housing has those ridges all along it for this reason too.

Along the intake tube, the ridges have nearly no effect on turbulence, and the intake pulse/waves are much more sensitive to path length and engineers build them to pull in air in phase helping the intake work. That's one of the biggest things you can interrupt when modifying your intake is the wave phase.
Please confirm where the heat is radiating from, and to, for me; and then the (theoretical) thermal transfer rate of that heat to the air mass passing through the rubber tube at a given rate; and then finally the appreciable gains from the "ripples" in the bellows.

I'd question the applicability of wave tuning an air intake in front of a throttle body, much less in front of an air pump (the supercharger) spinning at such a silly rate of speed. This isn't the runners in a TPI intake manifold where taking advantage of the second or third order wave forms are a "ram air" advantage.

PS. I was joking about the bellows having a significant effect on changing the air mass.
 

Hpindy

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#12
Hey motorhead
I would hate to be inside your head ... you think way too much lol

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motorhead

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#13
Hey motorhead
I would hate to be inside your head ... you think way too much lol
When I was last at Staff College a peer of mine (who I'd known since we were both Platoon Commanders together at my first unit) referred to me as having a "beautiful mind" - it was fully intended as a back-handed compliment. I pick my nose, not only for the boogers, but also to massage my noodle.
 
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#14
Please confirm where the heat is radiating from, and to, for me; and then the (theoretical) thermal transfer rate of that heat to the air mass passing through the rubber tube at a given rate; and then finally the appreciable gains from the "ripples" in the bellows.

I'd question the applicability of wave tuning an air intake in front of a throttle body, much less in front of an air pump (the supercharger) spinning at such a silly rate of speed. This isn't the runners in a TPI intake manifold where taking advantage of the second or third order wave forms are a "ram air" advantage.

PS. I was joking about the bellows having a significant effect on changing the air mass.
The intake is heated by conduction from the motor. That heat is then radiated away(this is how things cool off) and your ability to radiate away heat is a partially a function of your surface area. The greater the surface area is(isn't it a function of surface area squared?), the quicker you can shed heat by emitting radiation. Everything gives off radiation all the time by the way, but wavelength is a function of the temperature of the emitting body. I suspect you already know this. Curious why you think they wouldn't employ this with the intake tube as the principle is in play in so many other parts of the car with cross-hatched and finned out metal and plastic all over.
 
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motorhead

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#15
The intake is heated by conduction from the motor. That heat is then radiated away(this is how things cool off) and your ability to radiate away heat is a partially a function of your surface area. The greater the surface area is(isn't it a function of surface area squared?), the quicker you can shed heat by emitting radiation. Everything gives off radiation all the time by the way, but wavelength is a function of the temperature of the emitting body. I suspect you already know this. Curious why you think they wouldn't employ this with the intake tube as the principle is in play in so many other parts of the car with cross-hatched and finned out metal and plactic all over.
The thermal transfer of heat will always move toward the coolest area/material offered (I just taught this to my 6 year old last night about letting the heat out of the house - LOL), the rubber boot on the intake which is being cooled (very little) internally by the air moving through it, and although it is safe to say that the boundary layer along the inner wall of the intake boot is pretty much undisturbed or at the very least the air does not have an opportunity to stagnate in place for very long, even at lower engine speeds (idle) when the air mass is moving "slowly" through the tube. So while there is a significant amount of surface area on the inside of the tube, its ability to transfer the thermal gains to the moving volume of air mass (not just that resting against/near the wall) is pretty minimal. And in many cases the high IATs everyone sweats, and the associated rate of decline once the air mass begins moving quicker, is really more a factor of sensor rate recovery (a physical limitation in the parts design/materials/etc) than the actual temperature of the incoming air (which has already dropped once the throttle was cracked open). A high-end fast sampling thermocouple placed in the air stream would prove this.

The fact of the matter is controlling the heat radiating off the engine and into components managing air mass is a relatively minor concern in the stock system as the air intake tract is sealed away from the engine heat; and the warming of the air mass moving through the engine at speed is minimal before it is compressed by the supercharger (where most of the heated air mass into the engine occurs). The intercooler bricks and the "cool loop" A2W system pulls this heat away... hence why it is good practice to use this surface area to your advantage vs. putting a carbon fiber tube with an open filter on the end. This isn't air mass sitting in between the four walls of your house (accounting for thermal losses and gains throughout the year), it is moving and can only pick up so much temperature from simply travelling down a sealed tube. Aftermarket air intake tubes exposed to under hood air is a different story - because that is the induction of very hot air and it doesn't reach ambient again until the vehicle starts moving.

Those "fins" on the intake tube are for structure, not heat dissipation (the under hood temps are greater than the outside ambient air temps in a sealed system). The last thing you want is an air pump collapsing its access to an air source - kinda kills the overall efficiency, eh? I'd be more inclined to find a means to reflect the radiant heat away from the intake tract (isolating the source, adding physical insulation to the air box/tube, or creating an insulated layer of air (tube in a tube)) than changing the tube material itself... or adding more ribs for her pleasure.

Anyway, these are just my postulations - I have to go hit the gym now. Cheers!
 
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Hpindy

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#16
Will that be paper or plastic sir .....

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motorhead

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Will that be paper or plastic sir .....

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Thank you, but I brought my own hemp-fibre sack, I grew it myself.
 

Hpindy

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#19
The thermal transfer of heat will always move toward the coolest area/material offered (I just taught this to my 6 year old last night about letting the heat out of the house - LOL), the rubber boot on the intake which is being cooled (very little) internally by the air moving through it, and although it is safe to say that the boundary layer along the inner wall of the intake boot is pretty much undisturbed or at the very least the air does not have an opportunity to stagnate in place for very long, even at lower engine speeds (idle) when the air mass is moving "slowly" through the tube. So while there is a significant amount of surface area on the inside of the tube, its ability to transfer the thermal gains to the moving volume of air mass (not just that resting against/near the wall) is pretty minimal. And in many cases the high IATs everyone sweats, and the associated rate of decline once the air mass begins moving quicker, is really more a factor of sensor rate recovery (a physical limitation in the parts design/materials/etc) than the actual temperature of the incoming air (which has already dropped once the throttle was cracked open). A high-end fast sampling thermocouple placed in the air stream would prove this.

The fact of the matter is controlling the heat radiating off the engine and into components managing air mass is a relatively minor concern in the stock system as the air intake tract is sealed away from the engine heat; and the warming of the air mass moving through the engine at speed is minimal before it is compressed by the supercharger (where most of the heated air mass into the engine occurs). The intercooler bricks and the "cool loop" A2W system pulls this heat away... hence why it is good practice to use this surface area to your advantage vs. putting a carbon fiber tube with an open filter on the end. This isn't air mass sitting in between the four walls of your house (accounting for thermal losses and gains throughout the year), it is moving and can only pick up so much temperature from simply travelling down a sealed tube. Aftermarket air intake tubes exposed to under hood air is a different story - because that is the induction of very hot air and it doesn't reach ambient again until the vehicle starts moving.

Those "fins" on the intake tube are for structure, not heat dissipation (the under hood temps are greater than the outside ambient air temps in a sealed system). The last thing you want is an air pump collapsing its access to an air source - kinda kills the overall efficiency, eh? I'd be more inclined to find a means to reflect the radiant heat away from the intake tract (isolating the source, adding physical insulation to the air box/tube, or creating an insulated layer of air (tube in a tube)) than changing the tube material itself... or adding more ribs for her pleasure.

Anyway, these are just my postulations - I have to go hit the gym now. Cheers!
I will be waiting for your full thoughts after you hit the gym lol.

The transfer of heat to the IAT sensor is exactly the type of heat retention and soak they want to avoid I think and IMO part of the evolution of the tube design/sensor since the start of LX cars in 2005. Heat soak to the intake and especially sensor was a major issue when these cars first came out, granted the 6.1s giant metal intake runners helped transfer it...not that these blowers are much better once you shut them off. I’m not really talking at all about the transfer of heat to the air running through the intake tube. IWish I had a pair of Molson's for us!
 
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#20
What the hell are you guys talking about!

2 intakes out that fit our redeye's, KN and AFE. Looks like the winner would be a higher flowing filter with a larger filter.
 

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