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ACR Challenger Ruled Out Because It Was Too Heavy

Jack_Toepfer

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#2
You should see the look of surprise on my face. It looks like this - :sleep:
 

Matt someone with an SRT

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#3
I hate to say I told you so. But I told you so hah
 

Matt someone with an SRT

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#4
9068B089-6A82-4414-A6D5-958867015D9C.jpeg
 

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#5
You don't say:unsure::rolleyes::whistle:
 

TrackDay

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#6
Build it yourself if you want it. But the point will have to be getting out there and having fun in a car you like for other reasons than breaking a record at VIR or Road Atlanta.
I'm happy with mine and make sure that anyone who isn't pushing it hard with some ability won't go home with a Challenger conquest. I'm sure most of them likely take it for granted until we're on the track together. Several of them tell me so after a couple of sessions.
 

BULL

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#7
You know, the gratitudious use of aluminum in various places, like say the block, and some other places would be a great start.

Battery, no premium sound, etc.

Swap some CF in other places, and make some comprises for the sake of racing and you could get a lot closer.
 

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#8
You know, the gratitudious use of aluminum in various places, like say the block, and some other places would be a great start.

Battery, no premium sound, etc.

Swap some CF in other places, and make some comprises for the sake of racing and you could get a lot closer.
While it would certainly be possible to lighten the car significantly enough to make it track worthy, what would that cost and therefore what would the cost to customer be. I think it'd be one, very expensive track car and I'll bet there wouldn't be a big enough market for it. Well, except for the collectors and speculators. You know, like with the Demon customers...
 

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#9
I love the challenger... And i will own one again... but to get it down to a competitive weight, it would have to lose about 1,000 pounds. That's a LOT of weight. You're not going to get close to that with a few carbon fiber parts here and there. And i'd wager that the engineers would rather start over with a new chassis than try and slim down this really old one. Just a thought/guess.
 

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Build it yourself if you want it. But the point will have to be getting out there and having fun in a car you like for other reasons than breaking a record at VIR or Road Atlanta.
I'm happy with mine and make sure that anyone who isn't pushing it hard with some ability won't go home with a Challenger conquest. I'm sure most of them likely take it for granted until we're on the track together. Several of them tell me so after a couple of sessions.
My observation with sheetmetal cars at the track..... Most drivers think they are way better than they actually are... and as a result, they believe they are extracting all the performance they possibly can out of any particular car...

When in reality? They are not even close... It is amazing to me when a real racing driver sits behind the wheel of my car and i get to be the passenger... quite a humbling experience... and a great learning experience.

The point of my post is mostly this.... Even tho the challenger is not the greatest track car... it's WAY WAY better than most of even can imagine, because we (in general terms "we") lack the skills to extract every last drop of performance out of it like a real racing driver can.

This is why I cry "seat time" all the time. And because I have the brain of an addict...... I hit the track at least 2x a month (because the addiction is speed and g-forces) and can't wait till pay-day so i can do it next month. I love the track.. I wish more people would go. They would appreciate the car and it's capabilities way more than on the street.
 

coolblue

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My observation with sheetmetal cars at the track..... Most drivers think they are way better than they actually are... and as a result, they believe they are extracting all the performance they possibly can out of any particular car...

When in reality? They are not even close... It is amazing to me when a real racing driver sits behind the wheel of my car and i get to be the passenger... quite a humbling experience... and a great learning experience.

The point of my post is mostly this.... Even tho the challenger is not the greatest track car... it's WAY WAY better than most of even can imagine, because we (in general terms "we") lack the skills to extract every last drop of performance out of it like a real racing driver can.

This is why I cry "seat time" all the time. And because I have the brain of an addict...... I hit the track at least 2x a month (because the addiction is speed and g-forces) and can't wait till pay-day so i can do it next month. I love the track.. I wish more people would go. They would appreciate the car and it's capabilities way more than on the street.
I'm sure @DGatzby can attest to this.
 

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#12
My observation with sheetmetal cars at the track..... Most drivers think they are way better than they actually are... and as a result, they believe they are extracting all the performance they possibly can out of any particular car...

When in reality? They are not even close... It is amazing to me when a real racing driver sits behind the wheel of my car and i get to be the passenger... quite a humbling experience... and a great learning experience.

The point of my post is mostly this.... Even tho the challenger is not the greatest track car... it's WAY WAY better than most of even can imagine, because we (in general terms "we") lack the skills to extract every last drop of performance out of it like a real racing driver can.

This is why I cry "seat time" all the time. And because I have the brain of an addict...... I hit the track at least 2x a month (because the addiction is speed and g-forces) and can't wait till pay-day so i can do it next month. I love the track.. I wish more people would go. They would appreciate the car and it's capabilities way more than on the street.
Spot on. Best mod to make is track time for most.

I am FAR from being a great driver, but I can say I am much better than before I started doing track days. I'd say I'm not good enough to realize I'm not that good.

As you said, sit in the other seat and let a pro take the wheel. You'll quickly realize 2 things. How much you DON'T know...and just how much more capability these cars have that you aren't tapping.

Last year, a gentleman brought his non-redeye widebody to the track. A much more capable track car than a standard Hellcat like mine. Since we were the only 2 fat kids at the track, we sort of hung out.

Towards the end of the day during happy hour, the 2 of us were doing some lead-and-follow. I followed first, to see his lines, then we swapped and he followed me.

I certainly wasn't driving all out, and still had to slow down significantly so he could keep up.

Point being that even a little track time is better than none, and will certainly improve your skills. First few times on the track, the difference between the first sessions of the day and the later ones are quite remarkable.
 
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BULL

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#13
I love the challenger... And i will own one again... but to get it down to a competitive weight, it would have to lose about 1,000 pounds. That's a LOT of weight. You're not going to get close to that with a few carbon fiber parts here and there. And i'd wager that the engineers would rather start over with a new chassis than try and slim down this really old one. Just a thought/guess.
I think there is an easy 500lbs that can be taken out with reasonable expense and moderate street comprises, and several hundred more with more expense (still within reach) and even more comprises for the driver. I'm not certain if it gets to your 1000lb goal, but close.

Im not sure if I believe it could ever be king of that pile, but it could certainly be focused in a way to make huge improvements.

.02

:)
 

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#14
I'm sure @DGatzby can attest to this.
Yep, I have been following along. Good posts everyone. Too bad they could not figure out a way to build a lighter unit. That could have been fun. They managed to lighten up the Demon a bit, so they had a good start. I think everyone who has replied here has spent some considerable cash to upgrade their suspensions, brakes and wheels/tires, but there is only so many things that can be extracted. @TrackDay probably has the closest I have seen to getting his unit as light as possible, without beginning to drill holes in the frame! Good work TD! We even acknowledge the ACR badge on his ‘16 is okay.

The comments about the driver mods are so true. Even among us few who basically have a good deal of seat time and can compare notes (or lap times, or lead/follow), and quickly find that either one could be cornering or braking at different rates, sometimes for different reasons. Hell, what is fun is, we don’t all agree on the Mode selection, traction control or shifting techniques.

So anyway, without a ACR model exactly, some of us have enjoyed the challenge of modifying these big monsters, & lots of seat time, and find that even against things 1000 lbs less with enough money, balls and seat time we can still hang close enough to keep it interesting.
 

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#15
I love the challenger... And i will own one again... but to get it down to a competitive weight, it would have to lose about 1,000 pounds. That's a LOT of weight. You're not going to get close to that with a few carbon fiber parts here and there. And i'd wager that the engineers would rather start over with a new chassis than try and slim down this really old one. Just a thought/guess.
There was a video awhile back where a shop took out 666lbs out of hellcat and that was without carbon fiber body panels.
 

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#16
My observation with sheetmetal cars at the track..... Most drivers think they are way better than they actually are... and as a result, they believe they are extracting all the performance they possibly can out of any particular car...

When in reality? They are not even close... It is amazing to me when a real racing driver sits behind the wheel of my car and i get to be the passenger... quite a humbling experience... and a great learning experience.

The point of my post is mostly this.... Even tho the challenger is not the greatest track car... it's WAY WAY better than most of even can imagine, because we (in general terms "we") lack the skills to extract every last drop of performance out of it like a real racing driver can.

This is why I cry "seat time" all the time. And because I have the brain of an addict...... I hit the track at least 2x a month (because the addiction is speed and g-forces) and can't wait till pay-day so i can do it next month. I love the track.. I wish more people would go. They would appreciate the car and it's capabilities way more than on the street.
DGatzby recently posted an excellent 10 minute review video of the Red Eye, driven by a pro driver, at the National Corvette Museum's 23 turn track. That guy was under 2:20, on a stock car with stock tires, and this guy in this video is also a stock Red Eye clocking a 2:19:50. Watching this one lap video will get your blood flowing! He drove great!


There is a page I found googling "great lap times at NCM" and these times are, at least on whatever page it is, about 10th fastest. Of note, a 2019 Scat Pack posted a 2:22:29.

So, yes, heavy and all that, but still in the wide body model pretty fast company on a curvy track.
 

TrackDay

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#17
Regarding Andy Pilgrim at NCM a very recent test of a GT500 CFTP ran about a 2:09. That's what SRT knows they would be up against. And a GT500 only weighs about 200-300 lbs less than a Hellcat Challenger last time I looked.
This is not all about weight guys. Tires might get 2-3 seconds per lap for a stock Challenger. @DGatzby tires on 12in square wheels might be another second but you're not even halfway there.
Regardless I'm having fun with my car. I'm not building it to race in a class. I'm having a blast with it.
 
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What makes the cars so heavy today is all the safety equipment that manufactures have to put in them. Plus all the creature comforts as well. Remove all of that and the car would drop 700lbs quickly.
 

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#19
TD,

I really enjoyed his review of the GT500 and he drove those two cars on NCM too! Thanks for posting it. I'm with you - I want to have fun on the track and get what I can out of the Challenger with safety in mind.

Best,

Finface
 

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