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Poll who here thinks the announcement of the SRT Brand being Dead creates a buying frenzy for the Hellcats?

The SRT brand is officially over for the Hellcats

  • Does this create a frenzy to buy up the last run?

    Votes: 6 14.0%
  • No this is just hype and the product has plenty of life left.

    Votes: 17 39.5%
  • Yes the Hellcat just got a raise in price and value and you better grab one while you can

    Votes: 20 46.5%

  • Total voters
    43

Speedy!

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#21
Well that's not that great on the LT1 at least for me. I have a 2002 4runner that is a 3.4 V6 and with TRD supercharger makes about 300 to the tires lol.
 


Mike L.

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#22
I remember in late '81 Autoweek ran a article about the new 5.0 mustang coming out in '82. I got the first one in CA in early '82. I was so excited till I drove it. I think it had 175 HP with a 2 bbl carb and a 4 speed. It had shit Goodyear tires on it that would go up in smoke with the lightest throttle making you think it had power. I kept it 6 months and dumped it. Went and bought a 928 Porsche S with 300 HP and was happy. ( For a while )
 


Mike L.

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#23
I remember my buddy called me in '72 I think with his new Corvette 454. I said get your ass over here and take me for a ride. He showed and we took off. I asked " when you gonna jump on it? " He said " I am " WTF
 


why2kmax

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#24
Well that's not that great on the LT1 at least for me. I have a 2002 4runner that is a 3.4 V6 and with TRD supercharger makes about 300 to the tires lol.
Well thats a diff story. The conversation veered into the 70s mustang II (from the pic) and the late 70s early 80s performance being nothing but stickers and flares, and you asked when did the power start to come back.

Maybe I missundestood but 1974 was the last HP hurrah. Peak HP was about 300 and then emissions/oil embargo/insurance rates killed everything. MFRs didnt get back to 1974 levels of HP (about 300) until about the early 1990s.

My perspective is also a bit skewed I guess. I was a teenager in the early 80s, and my moms 76 Grand Prix had a 160 hp V8, my dads 48 hp VW Rabbit diesel was what I drove most. My first car was a Honda CRX with 76 hp.
 


Speedy!

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#25
I started driving in 1992 and first car was GMC Sonoma with a "powerful 125hp 2.8L V6" lol
 


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#26
And it lasted a long time. When did power start coming back? 5.0 Mustangs were like 200hp. Maybe like 2002 or 2004?
I'd say about 2004/2005. The GTO with 400 at the crank was a revelation to the long destitute temple of factory horsepower. The Mustang GT at the time, a whopping 240 or 260 (I can't remember).
 


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#27
I sure do. I owned a 77...white with red stripes and interior+4 speed. Cool car for it's time but definitely not fast. Not much was in 77.
 


GdBye

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#28
I remember in late '81 Autoweek ran a article about the new 5.0 mustang coming out in '82. I got the first one in CA in early '82. I was so excited till I drove it. I think it had 175 HP with a 2 bbl carb and a 4 speed. It had shit Goodyear tires on it that would go up in smoke with the lightest throttle making you think it had power. I kept it 6 months and dumped it. Went and bought a 928 Porsche S with 300 HP and was happy. ( For a while )
I owned an 82 as well in black with 4 speed. The ad campaign was "The Boss Is Back" because the hood looked similar to the boss 429 hood. It had a nice exhaust note and for it's time was not bad. Not even close to a Porsche S though. The 928 was a beautiful machine. The 930 with whale tail was a looker. If memory serves me correct, I think the 928 was used in the movie Risky Business?
 


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#29
Random pessimistic thoughts:

I agree with Bull on this. The "election" of the current admin and its lunacy to destroy every bit of cheap available energy, with the US moving back into the insanely restrictive PCA moved this decision forward sooner rather than later.

There is NO WAY SRT is able to continue to develop high hp performance cars when you take the established subject matter experts and enthusiasts and scatter them to the wind. "The future is EV", was always pushed hard but they are all in now. Conform or be punished. Im sure Stellantis will keep investing $$ in adding hybrid power to trucks and Jeeps, but will they spend the $$ to add it to the muscle cars to keep them alive? Maybe, but less likely. Ram and Jeep tank CAFE as much or more than Dodge but likely bring in more $$$.

Either way I see them wringing every penny out of the SRT badge and heritage to the point it becomes relatively meaningless as R/T is now. Just another sales gimmick like chevy's SS was in the recent past .

Maybe they'd create another group to develop the next gen car, but lets face it, this is dodge, not BMW or Benz. R&D costs a ton of $$$. Takeover companies often look for quick turnaround on their $$ and aren't likely to dump a lot more of it into a niche market that doesnt have a positive impact to their bottom line or image worldwide. M series stuff can continue to be designed and advanced, and built and will trickle down a bit through the line because they have a large group of luxury minded customers worldwide that will pay $150-200K for a vehicle and keep doing it. Dodge doesnt have that, or the brand Cache that BMW or even Jeep does to attract the necessary customers with deep pockets. I dont see a business case for them to continue to build these cars, tank their CAFE numbers forcing them to pay more $$ to buy carbon credits (yet another fking scam) Redeye, Superstock and T-REX may end up being the last hurrah.

The other variable is we have no idea how far along SRT was with the challenger/charger redesign. Maybe enough that it makes sense to keep it going and earn some $$ capitalizing on whats there or shelving it altogether. The continued kicking the can down the road 21 then 22 then 23 then......? gives me the feeling that if they disbanded the SRT group, it will never see the light of day.

Having said that, the platform is so old and long paid for that they may keep the line open for a number of years with wheel and color changes if it makes them enough money (or have they already done that?). Just like Yamaha did with the Vmax for both generations. Gen 1 went 1985-2007 with nothing but color changes after 1990, and Gen 2 went 2009-2020 with just color changes, and that even stopped after 2017. But even then, the customer based dwindled, the bikes MSRP at $18000 was on the high end of the spectrum for a one trick pony, the engine could no longer meet EU emissions standards so it was only sold in the US and Canada for 2019 and 2020 but the market wasnt there and they killed it.

This year will likely tell the tale. Sure there are parts availability problems that are supposidly limiting production but when that is fixed (or is it just an excuse), and we dont see them producing the cars in numbers that CAN sell, Id say thats a decision to end it, while making the last of them so exclusive and hard to get that people start fighting over them with their dollars like seaguls on a french fry.

Collectibility? Hellcats and SRTs will jump in price and they will hold value in the short term (10-15 years or so?) but long term, (30-40+ yrs) for them to do what previous peformance cars have done dollar wise, they will need an audience and a fan base and easy access to gasoline. Once that large fan base moves through the snake and dies, the cars will be worth comparatively very little other than maybe the milestone Demon. Shoebox Chevys routinely brought six figures and some still do. I love 55s and very much appreciate the history and styling, but at 54, I could give a Fk about owning one. They werent my era. Id pay way more for a 68-74 Mopar B or E body or anything from GM of that era before shelling out a ton of $$ for something from the 40s and 50s. As generations age their desires for cars dwindles and becomes focused on a certain segment.

Look at kids who are Driving age now and in their 20s, I see the majority have ZERO passion for cars in general let alone the future means to pay $70-100K+ for a car and those behind them are being taught to hate fossil fuels and the like. Thats your customer base for these cars in the long run.

Where will that be in 2050-2060. Will there be outrageous taxes on those "polluters" Will insurance rates skyrocket if you want to God forbid manually DRIVE one and its not controlled by some AI helper so that you are far more at risk of hitting and harming Karen or her bubble wrapped kid in their self driving apple car?

I dont know, unless something changes to right the ship in the next 5-10 years I dont see it happening. Happy to be proven wrong. PLEASE tell me I'm wrong
Well said and good points. You may have a calling as a futurist.

BTW this made me laugh... " (fighting) like seagulls on a french fry." gr8 visual...and likely true!
 


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Illegal_Demon

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#30

1971demon

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#31
And it lasted a long time. When did power start coming back? 5.0 Mustangs were like 200hp. Maybe like 2002 or 2004?
200hp...that's funny....motorcycles have that now...
 


1971demon

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#32
Well said and good points. You may have a calling as a futurist.

BTW this made me laugh... " (fighting) like seagulls on a french fry." gr8 visual...and likely true!
2050/2060.....who gives a fuck....I will be ten years or so into my dirt nap....wake me up if another party starts..other than that...I plan on bein dead for a very long time...;););)
 


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#33
2050/2060.....who gives a fuck....I will be ten years or so into my dirt nap....wake me up if another party starts..other than that...I plan on bein dead for a very long time...;););)
Oh I don't know, maybe people who aren't dead by then? Never thought of myself as young but on this board I do! ;)
 


Mike L.

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#34
I owned an 82 as well in black with 4 speed. The ad campaign was "The Boss Is Back" because the hood looked similar to the boss 429 hood. It had a nice exhaust note and for it's time was not bad. Not even close to a Porsche S though. The 928 was a beautiful machine. The 930 with whale tail was a looker. If memory serves me correct, I think the 928 was used in the movie Risky Business?
Who was the U boat captain? LOL
 


Xylander

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#35
Random pessimistic thoughts:

I dont know, unless something changes to right the ship in the next 5-10 years I dont see it happening. Happy to be proven wrong. PLEASE tell me I'm wrong
Majority, I agree with you. But, there's some history here that may affect things. Even when fuel was averaging above $3/gal here, the automakers were making Chevy Sonics, Nissan Leafs, subcompacts upon subcompacts... but the American people instead went full gas guzzling SUV anyway. It's true that the majority of people (I'd say greater than 80%) treat vehicles in the same manner as they treat what vacuum cleaner they buy and show about as much passion for it. These are the people who buy Chevy Equinoxes, Toyota Camrys (the Dirt Devil car), and so on.

When the EV revolution comes full steam, those people will buy the comparable car in their price segment. These types of buyers buy almost on price alone, and could probably care less if it takes gas or AC power. You'll have the EV SUV soccer moms and the EV sedans. A few of the IT nerds will still want some type of special EV (a la Tesla today) so they can say they're special. Also with today, you'll have a small performance EV crowd.

But the kicker here is going to be battery life, battery efficiency, and recharge rate. It's been said by people smarter than me that for so long as Li-ION batteries are in use, EVs won't be efficient enough to overtake ICE vehicles, even at $4/gal fuel costs. It's all well and good to design a car with 300mi range, but this will greatly impact long distance travel. Further, those 300mi range vehicles will only do 300mi for a year or two at most before the packs begin to fade. Then, when people start writing about how much it costs to replace their battery packs every 5-6 years...

Also, let's not forget all the people who live in lower income housing and apartments. These folks don't have ready access to in-home recharging, and budgeting for 2-3 hours per week of sitting in recharge lots is a bit much (for me anyway).

In short, the entire EV industry is banking on some magical technology to be developed that solves all these problems to make them efficient enough for $30k/yr workers to be able to afford and use them in the same manner as they use their current ICE vehicles. I'll be on board with the EV revolution when someone can drive 350mi and recharge in under 15 minutes... and do it with a car that costs under $35,000 new.

Until then, the majority of drivers will be either priced out of an efficient EV, or won't have one to buy that suits their needs. Thus, I don't see gas stations going out of business anytime soon.
 


Illegal_Demon

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#36
Majority, I agree with you. But, there's some history here that may affect things. Even when fuel was averaging above $3/gal here, the automakers were making Chevy Sonics, Nissan Leafs, subcompacts upon subcompacts... but the American people instead went full gas guzzling SUV anyway. It's true that the majority of people (I'd say greater than 80%) treat vehicles in the same manner as they treat what vacuum cleaner they buy and show about as much passion for it. These are the people who buy Chevy Equinoxes, Toyota Camrys (the Dirt Devil car), and so on.

When the EV revolution comes full steam, those people will buy the comparable car in their price segment. These types of buyers buy almost on price alone, and could probably care less if it takes gas or AC power. You'll have the EV SUV soccer moms and the EV sedans. A few of the IT nerds will still want some type of special EV (a la Tesla today) so they can say they're special. Also with today, you'll have a small performance EV crowd.

But the kicker here is going to be battery life, battery efficiency, and recharge rate. It's been said by people smarter than me that for so long as Li-ION batteries are in use, EVs won't be efficient enough to overtake ICE vehicles, even at $4/gal fuel costs. It's all well and good to design a car with 300mi range, but this will greatly impact long distance travel. Further, those 300mi range vehicles will only do 300mi for a year or two at most before the packs begin to fade. Then, when people start writing about how much it costs to replace their battery packs every 5-6 years...

Also, let's not forget all the people who live in lower income housing and apartments. These folks don't have ready access to in-home recharging, and budgeting for 2-3 hours per week of sitting in recharge lots is a bit much (for me anyway).

In short, the entire EV industry is banking on some magical technology to be developed that solves all these problems to make them efficient enough for $30k/yr workers to be able to afford and use them in the same manner as they use their current ICE vehicles. I'll be on board with the EV revolution when someone can drive 350mi and recharge in under 15 minutes... and do it with a car that costs under $35,000 new.

Until then, the majority of drivers will be either priced out of an efficient EV, or won't have one to buy that suits their needs. Thus, I don't see gas stations going out of business anytime soon.
The most important thing you said...."I don't see gas stations going out of business anytime soon." As V8 ICE Pigs who already own their HP rides, this is key! :love:
 


Slowpoke387

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#37
Majority, I agree with you. But, there's some history here that may affect things. Even when fuel was averaging above $3/gal here, the automakers were making Chevy Sonics, Nissan Leafs, subcompacts upon subcompacts... but the American people instead went full gas guzzling SUV anyway. It's true that the majority of people (I'd say greater than 80%) treat vehicles in the same manner as they treat what vacuum cleaner they buy and show about as much passion for it. These are the people who buy Chevy Equinoxes, Toyota Camrys (the Dirt Devil car), and so on.

When the EV revolution comes full steam, those people will buy the comparable car in their price segment. These types of buyers buy almost on price alone, and could probably care less if it takes gas or AC power. You'll have the EV SUV soccer moms and the EV sedans. A few of the IT nerds will still want some type of special EV (a la Tesla today) so they can say they're special. Also with today, you'll have a small performance EV crowd.

But the kicker here is going to be battery life, battery efficiency, and recharge rate. It's been said by people smarter than me that for so long as Li-ION batteries are in use, EVs won't be efficient enough to overtake ICE vehicles, even at $4/gal fuel costs. It's all well and good to design a car with 300mi range, but this will greatly impact long distance travel. Further, those 300mi range vehicles will only do 300mi for a year or two at most before the packs begin to fade. Then, when people start writing about how much it costs to replace their battery packs every 5-6 years...

Also, let's not forget all the people who live in lower income housing and apartments. These folks don't have ready access to in-home recharging, and budgeting for 2-3 hours per week of sitting in recharge lots is a bit much (for me anyway).

In short, the entire EV industry is banking on some magical technology to be developed that solves all these problems to make them efficient enough for $30k/yr workers to be able to afford and use them in the same manner as they use their current ICE vehicles. I'll be on board with the EV revolution when someone can drive 350mi and recharge in under 15 minutes... and do it with a car that costs under $35,000 new.

Until then, the majority of drivers will be either priced out of an efficient EV, or won't have one to buy that suits their needs. Thus, I don't see gas stations going out of business anytime soon.
Recharging in <15 minutes is the key. Any longer than that and lines will be forming with angry EVers. I don't see it happening for a long time and it really feels like the battery cart is being put in front of the EV horse and the trough only holds a few scoops right now. It's all out of order imo.
 


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#38
Where's the "no nor is there much life left" option?
Tend to agree with @Speedy! on the situation. Don't see corporate folks spending much on a 15 year old platform modification. The HC Redeye is likely going to be the crescendo unfortunately.
 


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#39
Searching over the weekend, I found a Redeye that was $108,950 ???? Something that will be different this time around compared to the 70's is that once gone, bringing them back will be nearly impossible because there unlike the 70's, there's a viable replacement in EV.
 


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#40
Tend to agree with @Speedy! on the situation. Don't see corporate folks spending much on a 15 year old platform modification. The HC Redeye is likely going to be the crescendo unfortunately.
I thought that was a de-crescendo?
 




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