What really is "STOCK"????

[Boris]

As we've seen in this thread, the Stock Power thread, and multiple threads before people (and I use that term loosely) are going to talk around, deflect, defame, or run away from the subject as a whole. It stinks of cowardice and a total lack of character. But, hey - they are the one's who have to live with themselves.

Also, as I mentioned in the other thread @moparjim - the Turbo Buick world needed classes and rules to deal with the requirement to standardize the record runs because all Turbo Buick owners are notorious liars and cheats (and it took years for them to get on the same page). I think that's why we enjoy each other's company, my tur-bro.

Outside the Demon club, i don't think anyone cares what a Demon runs anymore. 1 year only car that is now almost 40k more than a Redeye which basically the same car and can be made the same car for a few grand in aftermarket pieces.

Seeing all these claims reminds me of the LS1 guys. "I have the fastest 4th gen Camaro SS with a broken stereo knob and leaking heater core" Just to claim a world record no one else gives a fuck about.
I said it on the old page. Shit will devolve as people keep trying to claim world records etc.
Racing stock cars are boring. Unless an NHRA class but as the OP pointed out, still allows for basic bolt ons (and heavy gray area modifications by guys who have been doing it for forever).

 

[motorhead]

Outside the Demon club, i don't think anyone cares what a Demon runs anymore. 1 year only car that is now almost 40k more than a Redeye which basically the same car and can be made the same car for a few grand in aftermarket pieces.

Seeing all these claims reminds me of the LS1 guys. "I have the fastest 4th gen Camaro SS with a broken stereo knob and leaking heater core" Just to claim a world record no one else gives a fuck about.
I said it on the old page. Shit will devolve as people keep trying to claim world records etc.
Racing stock cars are boring. Unless an NHRA class but as the OP pointed out, still allows for basic bolt ons (and heavy gray area modifications by guys who have been doing it for forever).

Ah yes, I forgot about the LS1 "cam only" record nonsense.

 

[BULL]

Here's a question that settled on me just a moment ago while I wait for SolidWorks to regenerate and this thread was poking me in the corner of my eye from my second machine...


A little preface... While the question is rhetorical in nature, it also has a bit of a serious side that I mean not so much for you to give me an answer, but more so, to seriously ask yourself while you're staring in the mirror...



Why do you race against people you don't trust and then care about the results?

 

[Bowtie Guy]

Here's a question that settled on me just a moment ago while I wait for SolidWorks to regenerate and this thread was poking me in the corner of my eye from my second machine...


A little preface... While the question is rhetorical in nature, it also has a bit of a serious side that I mean not so much for you to give me an answer, but more so, to seriously ask yourself while you're staring in the mirror...



Why do you race against people you don't trust and then care about the results?

Someone is doing some designing I see !!!

PS
I don t trust anyone

 

[Boris]

.



Why do you race?

Money and competition

Enough money to make it worth my while, i'll run. Otherwise the rush of competing in a class or even a bracket race. But both of those still have payouts

As for arguing on the internet of who has the fastest "stock" car. Couldn't care less
"So and so has the fastest Demon at 4,280lbs on a nitto tire and a full tank of washer fluid"
So?!

Does he want to grab a lane for $XXXX?

 

[HRJ]

Why do you race against people you don't trust and then care about the results?

I raced dirt modifieds against a lot of people I didn't trust, for years. You better believe I cared about the results.

 

[Magnified]

Caring about the results is different than getting in a towering anyeurism inducing rage over them... at least for me. I play games with my kids, I do care about winning, but I don't care about winning so much I let it ruin the fun. Maybe just a different perspective.

But I will say this, when I catch folks lying, I call them out on it.

 

[BULL]

I raced dirt modifieds against a lot of people I didn't trust, for years. You better believe I cared about the results.

Good point, but that was a reasonably controlled and regulated racing organization??

I didn't say so, but I was referring to casual weekend racing against essentially open class cars and drivers.

Sure, still go do it, but like my original, out of control, post was trying to elude to, you have really no idea of what you might be racing against, so you can never be sure why you lost (or won).

Car?
Driver?
Equal prep?
List goes on forever...

Just go race, have fun, meet your own goals, person in the other Lane is nothing other than someone to avoid hitting.


I've said it before, but this is why I love Standing Mile, none of this who's got what is relavent.

If someone goes faster than me, good for them. Maybe it spurs me on, maybe not, but it's a good race for them.

 

[Blkout]

Your right and I heard from a little bird who was at that Demon event last year where all the Demon's ran 9s that guys were ripping everything out of the cars. windshield wipers etc everything they could.

I was myself at a Demon event where one of those Demons who ran 9.9 at the Demon only event, well he only ran 1 tenth faster then me and I wasn't even on skinnies in my Redeye. He ran a 10.5 to my 10.6. I don't trust these guys they will do anything for the 9s and 9.65.

Winner!

 

[HRJ]

Good point, but that was a reasonably controlled and regulated racing organization??

It was, yes.

 

[BULL]

It was, yes.

Was cheating a problem?

(Always is to some extent)

 

[coolblue]

Have been reading this thread and "taking it all in" as they say. I have to add my .02 at this point (because I know everyone cares. LOL). And that is this, back in the day Chevy made @50 427 aluminum block Camaro's for homologation in a stock racing classification under a special COPO order. The cars were delivered with all production components direct to the race teams. They were immediately disassembled (gutted) and turned into track cars. Exhaust manifold's off, exhaust removed, slicks on etc. One of the magazines actually took a complete restored COPO motor and tested it on a dyno as they removed and added things and changed jetting, timing etc. They found at the point they took the stock chambered exhaust off the car the car made 103 HP MORE. Point is, the car was NEVER INTENDED to be run dead stock as delivered and the factory knew it. It's the same today with most SHP cars. They expect and know people will add tires, CIA, etc.(with the Demon they gave'm to ya) to enhance performance. Does that make it not stock? IMHO no not at all. Some things simply wouldn't pass D.O.T. or noise level laws etc. so they can't put'm on OR take'm off.
If one does enhancements (cheats) and doesn't own up to it, that's a whole other issue.

 

[HRJ]

Was cheating a problem?

(Always is to some extent)

"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'"

We all looked for holes in the rulebook. Creative interpretations, etc. Also, we all scoured the planet for new ideas/tech that the existing rulebook didn't cover to get an edge. I remember running cambered tubes in our Frankland quickchange before anyone local even knew that was a thing. Huge benefit for awhile lol. If you didn't push, you got left in the dust.

So, yeah, it was a "problem" in that tech guys had their hands full. There's a lot of really smart and creative people turning wrenches in the pits. But in reality it's just part of the sport. The endless waltz at the tech pad, baby. It will never stop. The only way to prevent it is to pass out cars at the staging lanes and take them back when they pull off the track. And even while typing that out, I just had to admit to myself even that wouldn't guarantee a level playing field lol. Like I said, a lot of smart and creative people...

 

[Magnified]

See, I don't see that as cheating - pushing technology into areas where it has not gone before is just progress. Camouflaging things or characterising something as something it is not, intentional subterfuge and trickery, that is cheating. For me, the two are different. The 2005 Honda F1 hidden fuel tank? That's straight up cheating.

 

[BULL]

I guess there's always some middle ground, but to me, "cheating" is knowingly breaking the rules.

 

[1971demon]

"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'"

We all looked for holes in the rulebook. Creative interpretations, etc. Also, we all scoured the planet for new ideas/tech that the existing rulebook didn't cover to get an edge. I remember running cambered tubes in our Frankland quickchange before anyone local even knew that was a thing. Huge benefit for awhile lol. If you didn't push, you got left in the dust.

So, yeah, it was a "problem" in that tech guys had their hands full. There's a lot of really smart and creative people turning wrenches in the pits. But in reality it's just part of the sport. The endless waltz at the tech pad, baby. It will never stop. The only way to prevent it is to pass out cars at the staging lanes and take them back when they pull off the track. And even while typing that out, I just had to admit to myself even that wouldn't guarantee a level playing field lol. Like I said, a lot of smart and creative people...

 

[1971demon]

My drag strip experience is decades old....one thing I knew then...and I believe has not changed...If you aint Cheatin..you aint Winning...(other than red lights..)

 

[1971demon]

My drag strip experience is decades old....one thing I knew then...and I believe has not changed...If you aint Cheatin..you aint Winning...(other than red lights..)

I'm just glad the passion in the sport is still there...and its really only cheatin if you get caught...(spare me the morality)

 

[Stormtrooper1320]

Any new car you buy is no longer 100% stock as soon as the dealer fills the tank for you at customer delivery. That's a technicality I know.......but the car didn't come off the truck with a full tank.

I'll take my beating now please........

 

[HRJ]

See, I don't see that as cheating - pushing technology into areas where it has not gone before is just progress. Camouflaging things or characterising something as something it is not, intentional subterfuge and trickery, that is cheating. For me, the two are different. The 2005 Honda F1 hidden fuel tank? That's straight up cheating.

I guess there's always some middle ground, but to me, "cheating" is knowingly breaking the rules.

One time I screwed drywall screws into the treads and cut them flush with a pair of bolt cutters. One per block. At the same time, i mounted a empty nitrous bottle (not even hooked up) up next to the engine. It weighed about the same as the roundel of lead I had there previously when I scaled the car last. Everyone was oogling the bottle and no one was paying attention to the tires. The rules read something like, "G60 tires only, must duromter X after race, no alterations other than grooving/siping"

I'd call that cheating worked f'in great too